Choix des moteurs et exclusivités 2
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lequebecois
Inscrit le 11/02/2007 |
# 16 février 2012 11:52 | |
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Bonjour, Mise à jour du progremme d'essais du PW1524G de PW http://www.purepowerengine.com/pdf/Pres ... UPDATE.pdf _________________ Le bonheur est une pause entre deux emmerdes ! Adepte de la discutaille du coin du comptoir du café de la gare |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 23 février 2012 20:08 | |
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Bonsoir ! Un article trés intéressant de : Aerospace-Technology ! Ils comparent , beaucoup de LeapX à un peu du P&W GTF ! C'est bien, et qq éléments nouveaux, comme semble t'il, la définition du fan du GTF que tout le monde attend en particulier, type GE, ça y ressemble .... ! Un scoop ? Pas de preuves ni de réf's, mais ... Noté au passage, ce sont 15% vs 16% en faveur du P&W, rien de nouveau ! Et ça va augmenter , à mon avis ! Voir aussi les systèmes intégrés de CFM, déjà vu et intéressant ! Bon, en bref, tout est à lire ! --------- Aerospace Technology, le lien et un extrait ---------- http://www.aerospace-technology.com/fea ... s-737-max/ -------- The inclusion of unique technologies and extensive use of composite materials is intended to achieve an impressive performance - increased propulsive and thermal efficiency allowing for reduced fuel-burn and lower emissions, while allowing the reliability and maintenance costs of the CFM56 to be matched. LEAP's performance targets are ambitious: 15% improvement in fuel efficiency compared with the best current CFM56 engines, 75% lowering of noise footprint and a 50% reduction in NOx emissions against the Committee on Aviation Environmental Protection CAEP/6 standards. A number of factors contribute towards these goals. CFM has, for instance, opted for a unique fan blade technology - a 3-D woven composite, using resin transfer moulding - which imparts high durability and a significant weight reduction to the design. The more complex blade shapes this makes possible means fewer actual blades need to be used. There will be just 18 in the LEAP fan - half the number in the earlier CFM56-5B. The weight benefit continues with the use of composites on the casings too, leaving each LEAP-powered aircraft weighing, according to CFM, 'much less' than a plane using similar engines with conventional metal fan blades and casings. The engine core too employs novel and advanced features, including an ultra-high pressure ratio ten-stage compressor driven by a two-stage high-pressure turbine, and the second-generation, twin annular pre-swirl (TAPS II) lean-burn combustor - that is primarily responsible for the huge planned cut in emissions. Aiming at certification in 2015, LEAP has already been selected to power three new single-aisle airliners. When they come into commercial service in 2016, the Airbus A320neo will offer the LEAP-1A as an option, and the -1C will be the sole Western engine for China's Comac C919. One year later, the LEAP-1B is to be the exclusive power-plant aboard Boeing's 737 MAX. PW1000G - a game-changer The alternative option on the Airbus A320neo, as well as being the exclusive selection for the Bombardier C-Series, Irkut MS-21 and the Mitsubishi regional jet, Pratt & Whitney's new PW1000G also addresses these same goals of efficiency, emissions and noise - to an essentially identical effect. "IPS concepts are featuring in new designs as the need grows across the industry for extra fuel reduction, improved performance and improved maintenance requirements." It too aims to slash NOx exhaust gases to 50% below CAEP/6, cut noise to a quarter and burn 16% less fuel than today's best engines - with the promise of even greater savings in the future, as new airplanes come into service. Achieving this, however, has taken the engine's design along a different route. The first of the 'PurePower' family, the PW1000G arose out of the earlier geared turbofan (GTF) programme, and it is this revolutionary GTF architecture that the company claim make it "game-changing". Said to be the most efficient in its class, the large, light-weight fan is a 'hybrid-metallic' construction - a high-strength, proprietary design with a black erosion coating and titanium leading edge, which extensive testing has shown offers both the high intrinsic impact-resistance of metals and the low-weight advantages of composites. Separated from the other engine modules by P&W's innovative gear system, this fan can rotate relatively slowly, while the low-pressure compressor and turbine are able to operate at their higher, optimum speeds, thus increasing engine efficiency and achieving headline reductions in fuel consumption, emissions and noise. Add to this the NOx-slashing Talon-X combustor, together with deliberate moves towards compact design, fewer parts and inbuilt high-cycle durability and, according to Pratt & Whitney, the era of geared architecture is only beginning. --------- _________________ JPRS |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 27 février 2012 12:29 | |
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Bonjour ! Un énorme paquet de Rolls Royce, à travers un interwiew de Simon Carlisle, par Andrew Doyle, de Flight Global ! Ca fait bien longtemps que RR ne se déboutonnait pas ainsi ! - Et enfin un T1000 version "C" qui finira aux specs sur le B789 ! - Intéressant, surtout aprés un certain bashing concernant cette version C qui ne vibrera plus ! Vu Il y a un peu plus d'un an ... Voir les progrés et les changements à attendre pour les TXWB ! Et les futures Trent pour la fin de la décade (Ca sent fort le positionnement pour le B777-XX !) il y en a qui vont devoir changer leurs idées , le 777-XX va re-devenir intéressant ! Ouarf ! Rien sur le T900, et le A380, pas trop bon signe , ça, ou un secret bien gardé ! Beaucoup à lire et à commenter ! Je le coupe en 3 ! En profiter, pour une foi que ça cause chez RR ! --------- Le lien FlightGlobal Un extrait (La fin)--------------- http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... es-368728/ -------------- Part : 3 Rolls Royce : Le futur pour la fin de la décade : Fan et Nacelle Plastoc enfin, du poids à gagner, on attend impatiemment pour le A350 ! RR à du finir par s'en sortir avec le fan chez GKN, un bon point, depuis le temps qu'on en parlait ! Céramic's etc ... et une dilution jusqu'à 15 pour un diamètre de 330 Cm ! Holé, avec des compressions à 60 ... re holé ! C'est beau, et ce sera beaucoup de boulot, GE a bien du mal, espérons que RR s'en sorte ! Et un amplificateur "Pneumatique" pour l'air de refroidissement turbine ... intéressant , un ampli de vortex où une forme venturi, un transistor pneumatique, si on veut ! ----------- Beyond work on the XWB, Rolls-Royce is stepping up its "Advance 3" studies of technologies that could be introduced into the next iteration of the three-shaft Trent, possibly around the end of the decade. "The Trent XWB as it has been run today is the most fuel-efficient engine in the world," says Robert Nuttall, Rolls-Royce vice-president for strategic marketing. "That gives us a tremendous datum position. When we look at future products, we're starting from the very highest point in the industry." The technologies under study would be applicable to a 90-100,000lb-thrust engine, with a fan diameter of about 130in (330cm), which Nuttall says is "getting towards the limits of transportability for trucks". Contemporary Trents have a bypass ratio of about 10 but this could be increased to 15, says Nuttall. Pressure ratios could climb to 60:1 versus 50:1 today. "On the Trent we have delivered roughly 1% [fuel saving] per year over the life of that programme," he says. By the end of the decade that could mean a further reduction of 3-5%. Composite fan blades are one example of a technology likely to reach maturity in the required timeframe. "Until now we would argue that Rolls-Royce has led the world in titanium fan blades - a blade technology that has been lighter than its composite competitor," says Nuttall. "If we can get a composite system - the blades and the fan case - then we can save a lot of weight, but up until now we haven't been able to get a composite blade that's as aerodynamically efficient as a titanium blade. "It has been easier to make a thin, slim aerofoil with metal. We now believe we have managed to get a blade that is as efficient as our titanium blade but allows us to have a composite blade and containment system and altogether they will save us 500-1,000lb of weight. In context, that's an amazing amount of weight to save. The trick is how you lay-up the blade." VORTEX AMPLIFIER "Lean-burn" combustion, meanwhile, has been tried before but has failed to live up to expectations in airline service because of reliability and weight problems. "The science is relatively straightforward, but getting this to be a reliable, controllable system in a real-world operation in an airline is not straightforward," says Nuttall. Rolls-Royce plans to fly a demonstrator in 2014, which it believes will address these issues. The "Enables" concept, meanwhile, embeds electrical connectors in composite material to replace external cabling that can get damaged and is hard to repair. It also promises a weight saving of 50-150lb, depending on engine size. "Redundancy is built in, so that if something happens to one of the connective links, another one takes over," says Nuttall. Also in train are efforts to mature new materials that increase the temperature capability of the core, enabling it to be reduced in size. "High temperature takes you to ceramics," says Nuttall. "We're busy working on that." The "vortex amplifier" aims to simplify the process by which turbine blades can be cooled by extracting air from the high-pressure compressor (HPC). Air is bled from the HPC, routed around the combustor and put into the turbine, increasing the engine's fuel consumption. "In an ideal world we'd like to modulate that, and turn it down when you don't need as much," says Nuttall, who labels the vortex amplifier an "air transistor". He adds: "An air signal creates a vortex in the flow which controls how much of the cooling air goes across the chamber. It's an 'amplifier' so we can modulate the flow with no moving parts. We set up the vortex with a very small injection of air." The overall efficiency gain is "much less than 1%, but they all add up", says Nuttall. -------- FIN ! (Dernière édition le 27 février 2012 13:38) _________________ JPRS |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 27 février 2012 12:53 | |
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Bonjour ! Suite du post occasionné par la publication de l'article de Flight Global sur RR today ! Pour ce qui est du T1000 ! Noter que l'on n'était pas loin du compte dans les comentaires précédents... Twisted Evil Confirmation de la version C, sur le B789, mais des test et peut être une implantation "Préalable" sur le B788, RR ne veut pas être lié à l'EIS du B789, on les comprend ! Un grand pas vers les spec's, "within 1%" pour la version C, qui seront comblés, pour le B789 c'est bien ! Des paquets de techno, à rentrer progressivement , bien ! Ils reviennent de loin RR, quand même, plus de 4% avoués, au départ sur les versions "A" de ANA Ils essayent, RR de comprendre, ce que veut Boeing pour le 787-10, hum, visiblement Boeing n'en est pas là ! Une diversion sur le confort "Pression et Humidité" des pax ..; hum, pas trop compris la relation ... On en parle pas mal sur A.net, du bruit aussi d'ailleurs, à suivre ! --------- La première partie de FlightGlobal , Andrew Doyle ----------- http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... es-368728/ Part 1 ------ Rolls-Royce is simultaneously investing in a suite of technologies that - if all goes to plan - will equip the next iteration of the three-shaft Trent in time for future widebody developments that could go into service around the end of the decade. The Trent 1000 has already powered ANA's initial 787s on several hundred revenue flights, and the first long-range variant equipped with "Package B" engines began flights to Frankfurt in January. "I suspect this is where you'll start to see some of the real benefits of the aeroplane, with the high humidity rates and the differences in cabin pressure," says Trent 1000 programme director Simon Carlisle. "It will be good to see that they start to get passenger differentiation at that point in time." The first four ANA aircraft have Package A engines, which will be replaced with Package B units. "We had a lot of milestones last year for a project that's been fairly long in the tooth," says Carlisle. "We certified two engines, we cleared ETOPS, we did function and reliability [testing], we delivered the first aeroplane and we went into service." In terms of development, Carlisle is focused on the 74,000lb-thrust (330kN) Package C Trent 1000 that will debut on board the stretched 787-9. The intention is that this will also become the standard powerplant for the baseline -8, allowing Rolls-Royce to maintain a common bill of materials to simplify production and support. Further down the line, a further 787 stretch known as the -10X could become a reality. "We're still talking to Boeing and trying to understand what their plans for the -10X are, specifically in terms of size and timing, and they continue to be the key points of that discussion," says Carlisle. "We feel well placed because we have an engine that's capable of going up to 74k of thrust. It has more capability if required." According to Boeing figures, the Package B engine is 2.3% better on fuel-burn than Package A, although B remains 2% off the Rolls-Royce specification. C is projected to be "just over 1% off spec" says Carlisle, but further technology insertion should get the engine back to specification. "We are looking at putting some more technology in. We are doing some stuff with the LP turbine case cooling and changing some of the aerodynamics in the compressor. Not huge change packages, but some," says Carlisle. The plan calls for certain improvements developed for the Trent XWB to be introduced on the 1000. "The thing that is very attractive to us is the [XWB's] high- and intermediate-pressure 'rising line' compressors," says Carlisle. "It's a good technology and it's easily transferable into the Trent 1000. Similarly, we've got a whole load of demonstrator programmes running that are churning out technologies that we are looking at." FLEXIBLE TESTING Although the Package C engine will enter service powering the 787-9, it will be flight-tested on the -8. "What we were keen to do is not link the certification and qualification of an engine to a new airplane delivery. It would be bad for us if the -9 suddenly started to slip and we couldn't put a better engine on the -8 because it was linked to the -9," says Carlisle. "Boeing have exactly the same view, but their motivation is that by doing that they can offload some of the flight testing from the -9." European Aviation Safety Agency approval of the Package C powerplant is targeted for the end of the first quarter of 2013. Entry into service with 787-9 launch customer Air New Zealand is scheduled for April 2014, and Rolls-Royce is now focused on achieving the required production-rate ramp-up after years of delays to the airframe programme. "It's early days," says Carlisle. "We've been changing the product, incorporating modifications. They all need to get flushed through and stabilised in the supply chain. We, like Boeing, have got improvements we need to make there to get to the point where we feel more confident about the rate at which we produce engines and the cadence with which we produce them on a routine basis. It's no different from other programmes. "It's quite a shallow beach for the Trent 1000 on the 787. We have only ANA until, notionally, Q3 this year... There are about 12 aircraft to deliver, then we start to see LAN and LOT come on line. From my perspective, having a single operator to focus on with high-cyclic usage is a great learning position to be in." The manufacturer is building about one Trent 1000 per week, which will increase to 1.5 at the end of 2012. The rate will further rise to two per week during 2013. (Dernière édition le 27 février 2012 14:13) _________________ JPRS |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 27 février 2012 13:26 | |
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Bonjour ! Suite du post occasionné par la publication de l'article de Flight Global sur RR today ! Pour ce qui est du TXWB ! - Le premier modèle volant du TXWB, n'a pas encore ses reverses, et qq accessoires peut être difficiles à accoupler today (génés à FQ variable hyrauliques etc !) ... - Pas encore de test pour les piafs de 2 Kg, ça vient ! - De gros essais de déséquilibres pour tester la résistance aux vibrations , merci, un souvenir de QF32 ! - Le joint "Flottant" qui se détériore côté compresseurs, juste un mauvais souvenir, ce serait réglé ! - Le répit que donne le retard du A350, devrait permettre de gagner du poids ... - QQ gains d'efficacité sont envisagés, on l'avait vu ! - Les délais d'Airbus seront suivis aisément (On l'espère) par RR ! Mi 2014 pour l'EIS du 359, Mi 2016, pour le 358, et Mi 2017, pour le 350-1000 ! - Noter que le moteur du 350-100 sera prêt pour les essais en 2014, trés bien si ça tient, ce sera à Airbus de se remuer ! - Noter aussi que RR ne s'étend pas sur les spec's du TXWB pour le A358, hum ... une définition encore "Flottante" ou toujours multiple, chez Airbus ... c'est bien possible ! - Pour le TXWB 1000, malgré l'augmentation du coeur pour les 97 000 lbs de poussée, la SFC ne devrait pas augmenter, il y aura des insertions techno qq part ... à suivre ! Tout lire pour en savoir plus ! --------- La Seconde partie de FlightGlobal , Andrew Doyle ----------- http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... es-368728/ Part 2 ------ The Trent 1000's younger but larger sibling, the Trent XWB, has just reached its first-flight milestone, aboard the Airbus A380 testbed. The programme's eight test engines had accumulated about 1,500 hours on the bench. Integration tests have been completed with engine 20002, the first to be equipped with the Goodrich-supplied thrust reverser, along with other accessories including variable-frequency generators and hydraulics. This engine is now being reconfigured for the large flocking bird test, which involves ingestion of a single 4lb (2kg) bird. The medium test with four 2.5lb birds has already been completed. Another of the engines will be dedicated to achieving a continuous 500h of cyclic testing. "This will give us a very robust and representative service-usage type of environment," says Trent XWB programme director Chris Young. "We also seed out-of-balance deliberately into all of the shaft systems on that engine, to simulate the worst case of vibration on to all of the units and externals to prove the robustness of the engine. It's a very good maturity test." The first 150h endurance test using engine 20004 has been completed. "That was completely successful bar one minor finding," says Young. "We are rebuilding that engine to do a second endurance test where we're going to push to even hotter temperatures and higher speeds to clear the full service margins." The discovery of a damaged "flying seal" after the first endurance test led Rolls-Royce to fix the problem on the flying testbed engine before first flight. The engine had to be removed from the A380 so the seal could be replaced. "It was a very quick and easy change to make," says Young. "We had time and it gives us the right standard to go flying with. We've also put that new standard of part into the cyclic engine. That testing demonstrated that the part works well." The nine-month A380 testbed campaign is expected to cover 175h flight hours across roughly 60 flights. "We've got 1,200 instrumentation parameters on this engine. It's going to give us great amounts of data," says Young. Although Airbus has slipped the A350-900 development schedule by up to a year, Rolls-Royce has not felt the need to use that time to make further design changes. "We're not making any changes in our programme as a result of those Airbus movements, other than it gives us a little bit more time before we have to deliver the flight-test engines," says Young. "We may make some choices just to put some weight reduction in there and enhance the maturity of those engines. While we didn't need the extra time, we'll make good use of it." For the first time on a new engine programme, Rolls-Royce has dedicated one engine to proving the build process, and later to repair and overhaul procedures. This engine was recently released into the pre-production process. First flight of the A350-900, powered by Trent XWBs rated at 84,0000lb thrust, is due in early-2013, followed by entry-into-service little more than a year later. The A350-800 EIS is set for mid-2016 and the larger -1000, powered by upgraded 97,000lb-thrust engines, in mid-2017. Altitude testing of the latest Trent has proved compressor surge margins are sufficient at high altitude, after Rolls-Royce earlier decided to trade some surge margin for better efficiency. "This testing has demonstrated that we can actually do a little bit more than that, because the surge margin has been so good on the compressor. Given the time we've now got, we can do this prior to entry into service," says Young. This will yield about another 0.1% specific fuel consumption improvement to add to the 0.25% already achieved through trading surge margin. TESTING TIMETABLE The first of 13 flight-compliance engines for the A350 test programme will enter the pre-production line in April, followed by the others at a rate of one per month. The fan blade-off test is to be completed in Derby around mid-year. "We'll certificate some time towards the end of this year, most likely," says Young. "We don't need to certify before first flight [on the A380 testbed] so we'll certify when the engine is ready." In terms of development, the focus for the XWB is now on finalising the configuration of the 97,000lb variant for the A350-1000, which will incorporate an increased-flow fan system and bigger core. "It's an important year for us to get the concept of the -1000 engine finalised," says Young. "It is increased investment and change for us, but we think it's the right thing to do for the life of the aircraft programme. We were doing the higher capability turbines, and that's where most of our technology programmes are around, but we've got some more work to do in terms of putting the increased flow into the core system. "We haven't finalised our definite list of technologies, but we don't need to do that until around the middle of this year. My shopping list is more extensive than it was [before the Airbus decision to increase thrust requirement for the -1000]. That's what allows us to keep the SFC [specific fuel consumption] unchanged even though by making the core bigger the cycle gets a little bit worse. It's also given us time to drop the risk a little bit more on some of the technologies." Production of the first of six test engines for the -1000 is due to begin in the first quarter of 2014. ------- _________________ JPRS |
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lequebecois
Inscrit le 11/02/2007 |
# 27 février 2012 14:26 | |
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Bonjour, Dommage que RR ait négligé (volontairement ou pas ?) le segment de 70-200 pax (plus de 1000 avions livrés par année) sinon ils auraient une des parts de marché plus qu'enviable. Ils ont manqué le bateau pour les 15 prochaines années minimum... (Dernière édition le 27 février 2012 14:26) _________________ Le bonheur est une pause entre deux emmerdes ! Adepte de la discutaille du coin du comptoir du café de la gare |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 27 février 2012 15:14 | |
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Bonjour, Oui lequebecois ! Il reste pour RR une bien petite fenêtre du côté d'Embraer ... pour l'Advance 2 ! Mais je ne crois pas qu'ils seront dans le "Timing" Et les "Open Rotors" dans 15 ans, mais perso, je ne mettrais pas beaucoup de $ sur leur avenir ..... bon, on verra, ça peut bouger ! Sauf que si Boeing se lance dans le B777-XX et pour moi ça vient ... tréscertainement ... Il faudra une vraie cata avec le B737 MAX, pour qu'ils re-lançent un nouveau MC avant 2018 ... Donc, c'est pour dans 12-15 ans , effectivement ! (Dernière édition le 27 février 2012 15:49) _________________ JPRS |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 28 février 2012 09:46 | |
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Bonjour ! Une vraie volonté d'y aller (Vers le trés chaud) chez GE - Snecma ... pour le LeapX (Et d'autres) C'est la seule solution de "Survie" pour les 2 arbres ... à haute dilution ... Union et Joint venture pour des fibres (Filaments) de carbure de Silice ... pour les CMC ! Avec la Jap Nippon Carbon Corp ! Le Nicalon, nom commercial ! On va donc voir des Leap-X au Nicalon ! Pas de doute ça va chauffer ! Je pense un peu au M-88 aussi, au passage ! ----------------- Le lien et un extrait, sur ATW --------------------- http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-c ... ly+News%29 GE and Safran form joint venture with silicon carbide producer By Karen Walker | February 28, 2012 CFM International owners GE and Safran have formed a joint venture with Japan’s Nippon Carbon Co. to make and sell silicon carbide (SiC) continuous fiber. The new joint venture, NGS Advanced Fibers, will be headquartered in Chuo-ku, Tokyo with facilities in Toyama-shi, Toyama in Japan. Nippon Carbon will have a 50% share in the new joint venture and GE and Safran will each have a 25% share. SiC is an important material in CFM’s next-generation engine components. The manufacturer makes the CFM-56 engine and is developing the LEAP. Nippon Carbon president Shigeo Tajima said demand for SiC aircraft engine components was set to increase tenfold over the next decade. “We plan to meet this growth in the market for high-tech materials by establishing the joint venture," he said. Nippon Carbon’s SiC product is called Nicalon. "Safran's primary technology initiatives and investments, in line with market expectations, are to develop more environmentally friendly aircraft engines. One of the main expected technological breakthroughs will be the use of CMC materials in hot sections of engines that will help reduce fuel consumption," said Jean-Luc Engerand, CEO of Safran’s Snecma Propulsion Solide. (Dernière édition le 28 février 2012 09:59) _________________ JPRS |
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lequebecois
Inscrit le 11/02/2007 |
# 29 février 2012 03:31 | |
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Bonjour, Quelques nouvelles à propos du PW1524G : - Plus de 1200 heures d'essais complétées (dont plus de 200 en vol) - MTU à Munich a récemment conclu des essais de validation du stress de la turbine basse pression sur un des moteurs d'essai http://www.purepowerengine.com/pdf/pure ... 022812.pdf _________________ Le bonheur est une pause entre deux emmerdes ! Adepte de la discutaille du coin du comptoir du café de la gare |
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orkanyde
Inscrit le 06/01/2011 |
# 29 février 2012 21:45 | |
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Application sur M88? A voir sur le développement du moteur, mais vu que la version 9T a été mise de coté, pas pour tout de suite. Par contre la technologie pourrait être plus intéressante dans le cas d'une augmentation de puissance sur le SaM146 pour l'éventuel SSJ130 (mais apparemment, or de portée pour le SaM, donc à voir...). Et on peut voir la déclaration du boss de Snecma Propulsion Solide, donc surement une technologie qui intéressait le groupe Safran sur les tuyères! Quand à la position RR sur la remotorisation Embraer, peu probable, vu que les derniers signaux venant du constructeur brésilien est qu'ils voudront une solution disponible rapidement, donc au mieux du Leap-X ou du GTF, voir plus probable: un Passeport 20 |
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lequebecois
Inscrit le 11/02/2007 |
# 8 mars 2012 23:38 | |
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Bonjour, Jon Ostrower a reçu la confirmation de RR et PW qu'il y a/aura un RFP pour un moteur de 100 000 lb pour les 777-8X/9X. Pas d'exclusivité en vue à priori : http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fligh ... y-set.html (Dernière édition le 8 mars 2012 23:38) _________________ Le bonheur est une pause entre deux emmerdes ! Adepte de la discutaille du coin du comptoir du café de la gare |
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orkanyde
Inscrit le 06/01/2011 |
# 9 mars 2012 08:43 | |
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Et RR pousse pour revenir sur cet avion, ou il avait été chassé par GE http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 7x-369294/ RR réaliserai un moteur basé sur le Trent 1000/XWB (ce qui est cohérent) et en implémentant une partie des briques technologie lié au programme Advance3 Assaut en règle de la part de RR qui veut capter la majorité du marché des gros moteurs et a mit en pause toute velléité sur les moteurs pour la famille A320/B737. Un vrai choix stratégique de leur part! |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 9 mars 2012 10:28 | |
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Bonjour, je ramène ce post ! D'abord, il faut féliciter Jon Ostrower qui semble lui bénéficier de toute la confiance de Rolls Royce ! Certains d'entre nous saisiront tout le sel de l'histoire ! Ouarf ! Ensuite les caractéristiques du futur RB 3025 sont fantastiques ... 12 X de dilution, c'est trés bien, on avait vu passer 15, ce qui était un peu difficile à avaler ! RR se porte sur les terres du GTF, en 3 arbres ... peut être avec un coeur un peu plus gros ! Un taux de compression monté à 62, c'est énorme ! (Et attendu, on en parlait) ça va chauffer qq part ! Noté aussi les 100 000 lb de valeur centrale, avec 90 000 lbs en détarage, ça veut peut être dire que le RB 3025, devrait pouvoir monter un peu .. vers les 105 000lbs, voir plus, des fois que les devis de poids des B777-XX bougent aussi un petit peu ... Ce sont des choses qui arrivent ! Ouarf ! Bien, pour moi, avec un Tx de compression à 62, et une dilution à 12,7* c'est encore un nouveau moteur ... comme d'hab, de nouveaux arbres, de nouveaux couples, de nouvelles vitesses, de nouveaux roulements, et pas forcément le même nombre d'étages .... donc pas la même longueur, ni les mêmes proportions .... et en particulier, il faudra un corps renforcé, 62 bars ça pousse ! (Rappel, le T1000 qui s'est "Bizarrement" allongé !, entre "A", "B", et le futur "C" on ne sait plus trop ! Un moteur trés différent en 3 Ans, et rien à voir côté échelle ) Les scale-up, on attend toujours de voir le premier vrai exemple qui marche** ... Perso, je ne vois pas l'architecture du T1000 aller plus loin, celle du TXWB, avec le double étage de MT, offre plus de garantie pour les compressions ... surtout avec un tx de 62 visé ! * Noter que le tx de dilution "Idéal" déterminé par la NASA il y a longtemps, il est de l'ordre de 13, on l'avait vu ...Donc, RR se rapproche de ce chiffre magique ! ** Bon, l'exemple qui marchera , existe quand même, dans la gamme même du TXWB du A350, scale UP, trés limité à 2 pouces, à ce niveau ... bien sûr ça doit marcher! On perd un peu sur le Tx de dilution, quand même ! Transfert de technologies et progrés, oui, Scale Up, ou Scale Down = Grosse blague, hors QQ % de variation dimentionelle comme sur le TXWB ! Noté quand même 15% de mieux que les T800 ... on comprend que les 777-200 avaient bien du mal à se vendre (Des morts rapides, ceux là) ----------- Bon la supposée réponse de GTE .... Je cite : Compared to the 115,000lb-thrust GE90-115B that powers the 777-300ER, the lower thrust 99,500lb and derated-88,000lb GE9X for the 777-9X and -8X, respectively, are enabled by the larger, higher-lift and comparatively lighter composite wing. The eCore-inspired engine would also feature a GEnx-style composite fan casing and third-generation Twin Annular Premixing Swirler (TAPS) Combustor, dubbed TAPS III, say those familiar with the engine maker's planning. The 325cm (128in) diameter GE9X engine is believed to tout an approximately 10:1 bypass ratio, 60:1 overall pressure ratio and 27:1 high pressure compressor ratio, compared to the 42:1 and 23:1 pressure ratios, respectively, on today's GE90-115B. Pour GE, une dilution "Seulement" de 10, assez compatible avec leur architecture 2 arbres, et 2-3 points de BPR derrière RR, à ratrapper en chauffant un peu plus dur ... comme d'hab ?? Par contre les compressions montent aussi à 60+ , une jolie pile d'étages de compression à prévoir ... ---------- Bien, chez P&W, pas grand chose n'est dit, et ça risque d'être juste pour convaincre, ils ont certainement les armes pour ... sur le papier ! Mais on n'a absolument rien vu de démo, de plans, ou le moindre résultat d'essais de leurs réducteurs dans les hautes puissances ... A mon avis, pour convaincre Boeing, il faudra en montrer beaucoup plus .. On attend ! Je cite J.O Qui cite P&W! Citing an excess of 6,000h and 80,000 cycles on its fan drive gear system (FDGS), P&W says its testing has "validated our analytical prediction that this engine architecture would be suitable to thrusts up to 100,000 pounds." C'est clair !!! Non ??? On n'est pas prêt, mais ça avance ... ! ------------------- Conclusions (Sic) ...ça commence juste ... Sur ce coup ... on n'a pas fini de voir tomber des com's d'ici Farnborough ... bien intéressant quand les motoristes sont bien obligés de parler .. RR met le paquet pour être dedans cette foi, et peut être leader ! On ne parlerait plus d'exclusivité... les mouches vont changer d'âne ... holé! RR, Ils ont l'air assez sûrs d'eux pour dévoiler leurs batteries, c'est bien ... ! Un positionnement politique aussi ! Les concurrent devront jouer "catch-up" et publiquement ... marrant ! GE, certainement incontournable chez Boeing, va continuer à jouer avec les limites du 2 arbres ! P&W, n'est pas en avance sur les gros moteurs, il en faudrait plus pour convaincre, on attend sans trop y croire côté timing ! (Dernière édition le 9 mars 2012 15:05) _________________ JPRS |
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lequebecois
Inscrit le 11/02/2007 |
# 15 mars 2012 23:49 | |
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Bonjour, CFM fait la mise à jour des performances de ses nouveaux moteurs en service : CFM56-5B PIP: http://www.cfm56.com/press/news/cfm56-5 ... ervice/648 CFM56-7BE: http://www.cfm56.com/press/news/advance ... ecord+/649 _________________ Le bonheur est une pause entre deux emmerdes ! Adepte de la discutaille du coin du comptoir du café de la gare |
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lequebecois
Inscrit le 11/02/2007 |
# 30 mars 2012 11:22 | |
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Bonjour, GE affirme que le GEnx du 787-9 aura une consommation dans les specs du cahier des charges . Il y a même un peu plus de poussée disponible (78 000 lb) au cas où... http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... annel=comm _________________ Le bonheur est une pause entre deux emmerdes ! Adepte de la discutaille du coin du comptoir du café de la gare |
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