Accidents et Incidents aériens
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pesawat
Inscrit le 06/01/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 14:15 | |
| C'est vrai que la qualité doit etre bien differente, le produit est bon, je pense ,mais le stockage est mauvais parfois ce qui doit degrader la qualité du produit. | ||
 
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pesawat
Inscrit le 06/01/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 14:19 | |
 Toutes les booster pumps s'arretent en meme temps, peu probable! |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 15:46 | |
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No comment, ... mais allez vers..... : -- lien (i) : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 213335.ece -- lire l'article, si vous voulez ; -- mais cliquez sur : Multimedia Video briefing: Ben Webster Visionnez le "Times on Line TV" --" Need to know: Flight 777 crash" |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 16:48 | |
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Bonjour Précis le Times... donc, 40 secondes sans aucun moteurs, 600 pieds pour 2 nm et le RAT sorti de sa cage..... Donc probablement le double flame-out, et simultané, ... Plus (Assez) de fuel an niveau de l'injection, pas assez d' air, ou trop d' eau dans l'air, pour les moteurs .... C'est par là qu'ils doivent chercher, plus, éventuellement le super bug qui coupe les moteurs. JPRS _________________ JPRS |
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checklist
Inscrit le 02/12/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 17:38 | |
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Trop d' eau dans l'air, pour les moteurs ? Les moteurs ne sont pas tester à rudes épreuves avant leurs certifications? _________________ Qui pêche par orgueuil, cour à sa perte ... |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 18:11 | |
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No comment. ! Quelques menus détails de plus. Liens + extraits : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main. ... ath519.xml "At approximately 600ft and two miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. "The investigation is now focused on more detailed analysis of the flight recorder information, collecting further recorded information from various system modules and examining the range of aircraft systems that could influence engine operation." --------------- http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... ane19.html Investigators are due to deliver a more detailed report within 30 days. David Gleave, the chief safety investigator at Aviation Hazard Analysis, a private company, ....... .....also speculated about a fuel problem. The report said a "significant amount of fuel" leaked in the crash, indicating that there was still fuel on board, but the report did not clarify whether fuel was flowing to the engines properly. Experts said another question was whether there was a problem with the fuel itself, drawn from the bottom of the tanks at the end of the long flight. ------------------ http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transp ... 350914.ece One airport worker said that the captain had told him that the plane had lost all power after "all the electronics" failed as the plane came in to land. (Message édité par sevrien le 19/01/2008 18h25) |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 18:16 | |
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Bonjour Pour Info c'est laFAA qui le dit Flame out !! http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... Section=-4 Statement of the Problem There have been a number of multiple turbine engine power-loss and instability events, forced landings, and accidents attributed to operating airplanes in extreme rain or hail. Investigations have revealed that ambient rain or hail concentrations can be amplified significantly through the turbine engine core at high flight speeds and low engine power conditions. Rain or hail through the turbine engine core may degrade compressor stability, combustor flameout margin, and fuel control run down margin. Ingestion of extreme quantities of rain or hail through the engine core may ultimately produce a number of engine anomalies, including surging, power loss, and engine flameout. ............................... An examination of the FAA accident/incident database system and National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) records revealed two accidents that were the result of inflight engine shutdown or rundowns caused by excessive water ingestion. In each case, the aircraft was in the descent phase of flight. These accidents form the basis of the expected benefits of the subject rule. However, what follows should be considered a conservative estimate of the rule's potential benefits for three reasons. First, the rule should have the effect of increasing turbine engine water ingestion tolerance regardless of the source of water Accident/ incident records show that many events (not included in the benefits estimates that follow) were caused by other forms of water such as snow and graupel. It is possible that some of these cases would have benefited from the subject rule. Second, several other incidents, while not resulting in a crash, nevertheless had catastrophic potential. This potential could be exacerbated by the development of more efficient turbofan powerplants which have permitted large aircraft designs incorporating fewer engines. An industry study identified seven events (not recorded in either the FAA or NTSB databases) in which rain and/or hail affected two or more engines and resulted in an inflight shutdown of at least one engine. Third, heavy rain and hail are often accompanied by severe turbulence and windshear. While recovery from a water induced engine shutdown is frequently successful, the ability to maintain engine power during an encounter with an unexpected downdraft could be crucial to avoiding a crash. JPRS Madrid _________________ JPRS |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 18:47 | |
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No comment. Quelques détails de plus. Mais toujours impossible de commencer à tirer des conclusions. -------------- Lien & extrait : http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... article.do Inquiries by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch appear to rule out any form of pilot error in the approach for landing. One area of specific interest will be the electrical system after it emerged yesterday that there had been at least 12 serious incidents of overheating, causing "major damage" to power panels on at least four occasions. Sur les B777, ou sur cet appareil ? ---------------- The initial findings of investigators are based on interviews with the pilots and analysis of the black box flight recorder and cockpit voice recorder. Last night the initial accident report appeared to confirm that only the supreme skill and bravery of the pilots had averted major loss of life. And whatever the cause of the accident, there was widespread praise for the skill and professionalism of the crew during the emergency. -------------------- http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do Record of fires on 777 jets Dick Murray and Jonathan Prynn 18.01.08 ....... The Standard has learned that Boeing 777s have been involved in at least 12 serious incidents when electrical systems became dangerously overheated during or immediately prior to flights. On at least four occasions this caused "major damage" to power panels containing vital circuits that control the plane. The revelation came as investigators continued their search for the cause of the worst aviation accident at Heathrow for more than 30 years. ......... Today it emerged that the Department for Transport's Air Accidents Investigation Branch, which is carrying out the inquiry, warned about electrical overheating on the 777 in a report published last April. It followed an accident in February when a pilot on a United Airlines 777 abandoned a take-off after it lost one of its main power control units - known as a bus. The plane was evacuated after smoke was seen coming from the plane. An investigation revealed "extensive heat and fire damage" to an electrical panel which had melted and vaporised circuits. The report went on: "There was evidence that molten metal had dripped down onto the insulation blankets beneath this panel." It emerged that similar incidents on 777s had happened 11 times previously since the model was introduced in 1996. The report said the AAIB was working with the US National Transportation Safety Board, Boeing and the manufacturer of the power panel "to try to determine the cause of the failures within the electrical power system". ........ However, the reliability of modern jet engines means most pilots will only encounter even a single engine loss a few times in their career. .......A double simultaneous failure is regarded as an incredibly remote possibility with odds of many millions to one. (Message édité par sevrien le 19/01/2008 18h59) |
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pesawat
Inscrit le 06/01/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 20:30 | |
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Vu la taille de l'entrée d'air de ses moteurs, c'est sur c'est une possibilité mais il pleuvait ce jour là? Je penche plutot pour un problème electrique, un panneau electrique de commande, alimentant les FADEC et hop panne simultannée des deux moteurs... |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 20:37 | |
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Salut, pesawat ! Ecoutez l'audio-vidéo de David LEARMOUNT, ex-pilote de la RAF (et pilote de ligne, me semble-t-il ? ), et Monsieur SAFETY de Flight International (lien : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... video.html ) : -- temps beau (soleil), ... pas de vent siugnificatif (personne n'évoque le cisaillement / "wind-shear"). (Message édité par sevrien le 19/01/2008 20h52) |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 21:04 | |
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Sans commentaire ! La communication est mise à jour régulièrement dans la presse britannique et internationale en ce moment (je ne parle pas de la presse française, qui, a juste titre, attend prudemment dans un silence louable). ---------- Lien & extrait : --------------- http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 216042.ece Investigators examining the wreckage of flight BA038 are now focusing on the theory that the crash was caused by a failure in the avionics and electronics systems that control the plane’s engines. British Airways is expected to examine the systems of every aircraft in its 43-strong fleet of Boeing 777s, although the Air Accidents Investigations Branch says there is no need to ground the planes at this stage. A senior industry source said: “BA are going to have to check every single one of their 777s. The AAIB has identified that the problem seems to be connected with the avionics and and electrics which link the flight deck to the engines. They will need to go through engineering logs to find if there have been any similar problems, they will need to make sure all the connections are OK. It is good practise as much as anything else.” A former 777 pilot said that it was extremely unlikely that both engines would have suffered failure at the same time. “For two engines to fail at that stage of the flight - it’s not lack of fuel or contamination,” he said. “It’s got to have been commanded (by the automatic control systems). We are all aghast.” Aviation experts will also compare the crash to an incident in August 2005 when a Malaysia Airlines 777 suffered an electronics failure. The plane had just taken off from Perth, Western Australia, en route to Kuala Lumpar when the computer system claimed that the plane was going both so slowly it was about to stall, and so fast it was approaching its overspeed limit. British Airways said it had carried out an emergency directive to correct the software” fault. (Message édité par sevrien le 19/01/2008 21h06) |
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Beochien
Inscrit le 13/02/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 22:37 | |
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Bonsoir Un peu de vent quand même ...et un peu instable, probablement pas suffisant pour un vrai ciseau. Penser aussi à un problème de glace ... fondant , mais assez peu vraisemblable qu'elle attaque en même temps 2 moteurs, si bas et à 11º l avait du sortir de la zone de givrage depuis qq minutes ...bien que dans ma proche famille qq'un ait eu droit a 3 flame out sur 4 sur une opération de dégivrage trop brutale ...récupéré 2 1/2, sur 4 aprés 3-4000 pieds de chute ... The weather at Heathrow at the time was wind from 220° at 16kt (30km/h), broken cloud at 1,400ft (426m) and 2,000ft, temperature 11°C, dew point 9°C, with a warning that the wind might vary temporarily to 240° at 20kt, gusting to 32kt. The visibility was greater than 10km (6.2 miles). Reste le méchant bug ou PB electrique ... si c'est le soft ça va durer. JPRS Madrid _________________ JPRS |
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nago
Inscrit le 07/01/2007 |
# 19 janvier 2008 22:47 | |
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Les deux FADEC sur le même bus? Redondances out simultanément? Bizarre! |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 23:44 | |
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C'est tout le détail du FADEC qui va en dire long ! Parole de RR, le soir du vendredi, 18/ 01 /2008 (contact au téléphone ; mais , prudent et professionnel, mon interlocuteur ne dit rien de plus ; pour l'appareil en question, il m'a dit, "Je n'ai pas encore eu le temps de déterminer si nous avons uné télémétrie complète pour les moteurs de cet avion ; le "monitoring total" n'est pas sur tous les moteurs des familles Trent 700 & 800 ; de toutes les façons, si c'est la cas, ... discrétion totale et priorité à l'enquête de l'AAIB"). (Message édité par sevrien le 19/01/2008 23h50) |
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sevrien
Inscrit le 08/08/2006 |
# 19 janvier 2008 23:57 | |
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Additif tout récent,... ou que je viens de détecter. Lien & extrait : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 213335.ece The crash investigators are likely to consider the role played by a device in the cockpit that prevents some warning signals from sounding below 600ft in order not to distract the pilots while they concentrate on landing. The BA pilot said: “Warnings of engine problems were inhibited, which could have prevented the crew from taking action earlier to recover power. This will be an issue for the investigators and Boeing to consider. They have to balance the conflicting needs of giving early warning and not distracting the pilots at such a critical phase of the flight.” |
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