Accidents et Incidents aériens

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Auteur	Message
pesawat Membre Inscrit le 06/01/2007 1 195 messages postés	# 18 mai 2008 23:30
	Bonsoir a tous, je reste sceptique pour le carburant, il y en avait ou pas ?Il y en avait pas assez et les pompes ont soudain plus rien aspirés?une descente un peu trop accentuée a un moment,peu de carburant et voici un facteur accident qui me semble réaliste. Il fallait se dépecher en plus pour les pilotes car Gordon devait partir je crois avoir vu cela sur le forum!

poncho Membre Inscrit le 10/04/2008 718 messages postés	# 18 mai 2008 23:59
	Bonsoir, J'avais noté la "fresh cavitation" des "HP pump" à Kéro ... comme étant troublante (conséquence du pb plutôt que cause ? facteur aggravant ?) Et coomme Beochien j'avais noté la température de congélation très basse kéro sans pouvoir en tirer quelque conclusion. Ca semble finalement très complexe comme panne. Une belle cascade d'événéments ?

Beochien Membre Inscrit le 13/02/2007 9 170 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 00:38
	Bonsoir Et il y avait 10 000 litres de fuel à bord, donc sauf looping et ça se saurait , pas de raison de désamorcer ! De Plus 9 secondes entre les 2 réductions de puissance .. - Trop pour une erreur de gestion du (Des) programmes .. ou de l'électronique ... - Et vraiment pas beaucoup d'espace pour des phénomènes de congélation, obstruction aussi symétriques ?? .. ça défie la logique ! - Je ne vais pas tarder a brûler les pieds de nos pilotes ... concernant les courbes de températures des fuel pendant une descente .... voir comment cela suit, et savoir de combien et à quelle vitesse se réchauffent 5-7000 litres de fuel dans un réservoir en 20-30 minutes ... Intéressant, !! du moins pour moi ! Je pense à ma boite biere congelée quand je l'ouvre ... comparée à l'accordéon pompe BP HP, Injrcteurs ect ... et un fuel hors normes ... Les réacteurs alimentés avec de la mousse ... une émulsion quoi ! Et plus lié aux changements de pression (Altitude) qu'aux changements de température (Inertie du fuel ... opinions trés personnelles bien sûr !! Bon ... Sévrien va encore m'accuser de délirer . j'assume ! Mais a cette heure, un dimanche ... c'est pardonnable !! JPRS Paris _________________ JPRS

sevrien Anonyme Inscrit le 08/08/2006 10 923 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 00:45
	okhly a écrit :C'est très surprenant , voire un peu inquiètant , que la cause du crash du Boeing 777-200 à Heathrow le 17 janvier 2008 ne soit pas élucidée. Non.

sevrien Anonyme Inscrit le 08/08/2006 10 923 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 00:47
	pesawat a écrit :Des hypocrites c'est tout, ce qui s'est passé c'est une panne sèche, simplement , comme une compagnie américaine vous savez... juste ce qu'il faut pour faire le vol sans penser aux éventuels changements de direction de vents, portants c'est sur que cela consomme moins mais si cela change ou un autre paramètre qui change et hop panne en phase descente a quelques kms de l'atterissage.Les pilotes vont parler peut etre! En fait, j'ai lu trop vite ! Désolé, pesawat ! Mes excuses ! Je formulerai différemment plus tard ! (Message édité par sevrien le 19/05/2008 12h36)

eolien Membre Inscrit le 30/01/2008 6 998 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 09:58
	Bonjour à tous, C'est ici que j'ai découvert ce forum, c'est ici que je le quitte. Les polémiques incessantes et les mots au mieux vexatoires, au pire insultants employés par Sevrien m’obligerait à une escalade verbale, préjudiciable au forum et à sa tenue. Par ailleurs ayant le sentiment que je dérange, je préfère quitter la scène. N’étant le fer de lance de personne, mais étant libre comme le vent, j’ai pris ma décision : je quitte ce forum définitivement. J’espère qu’ETOPS sera plus tenace que moi et continuera à apporter son regard de navigant et de pilote. A lui, et aussi à vous, je souhaite bonne chance. Patrick, l’Eolien. PS : il est inutile de me répondre par quelque moyen que ce soit, je retire l’adresse de ce site sitôt ce message posté.

etops Membre Inscrit le 28/04/2008 525 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 10:04
	sevrien a écrit :Foutaises ! pesawat me permettra d' utiliser la réponse de sevrien pour faire une excellente transition à ce qui va être mon dernier message sur ce forum: (A) Sur la forme, sevrien ne respecte pas et systématiquement les Conditions Générales d' Utilisation ( partie IV ): " (...) rester courtois et respectueux" . c'est le problème des Administrateurs, mais un rappel collectif me parait approprié . J' admets que de temps en temps , qq écarts dus à la passion , mais à ce point ce n' est plus un écart, c'est une norme ! ( B ) Sur le fond, sevrien a manifestement une croisade à mener jour et nuit . J' ai qq convergences avec ses argumentations, mais sa pratique d' exclusion manifeste et subtilement relayée , instillée par qq autres ( au passage, merci de l' acceuil à mes premiers messages, aucun bonjour, bienvenue, tout de suite une rafale ! ) m'est devenue insupportable . Toute proportion gardée, Vychinski est de retour ! ( C ) Je ne suis pas un sous marin AF/GE/Boeing ! sevrien se prend un peu trop pour George Smiley ! Un forumiste ayant modifié qq le traitement qui m' est appliqué recevra en m.p ce que je lui ai promis en gage de sincérité . Salut à tous ETOPS ( qui bientôt ne le sera plus car j' aurai 4 moteurs - merde des CF6 ! ) (Message édité par ETOPS le 19/05/2008 10h06)

etops Membre Inscrit le 28/04/2008 525 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 10:11
	Je viens de voir le message de mon collègue ! Faut croire que le Lundi matin prête à la réflexion ! Je ne suis pas lui et il n' est pas moi, soyez en persuadés ! Les administrateurs devraient pouvoir démentir les éventuels accusations qui risquent de fleurir içi . Si c'est le cas , j' aimerais qu' ils le fassent. Question d' honneur !

Curufinwe Responsable Inscrit le 27/04/2006 2 618 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 10:25
	si vous le voulez, je confirme à 100% que vous n'êtes pas lui et vice versa ... je peux dire que j'en suis plus que sûr ... _________________ David - ~~prof~~ policier, secrétaire, assistant social, parent, infirmier et psychologue à Toulouse! Rédacteur en chef d'Aeroweb-fr.net Mes photos sur Pictaero "Never trust a small man. His brain's too near his arse," Sir Noel Coward.

poncho Membre Inscrit le 10/04/2008 718 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 10:36
	Bonjour, Pour revenir à nous moutons et pour donner un autre angle, éminemment moins technique... http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sund ... -20396282/ Captain who saved 152 lives says British Airways have betrayed him By Simon Wright [email protected] 27/04/2008 Captain Peter Burkhill (SM) Related Articles More Sunday Have your say on What are you talking about? in our Forums News picturesRelated Tags ba, british airways, peter burkill (What's this?)The hero pilot who saved 152 lives in the Heathrow crash landing is planning to quit British Airways in disgust at the way bosses have treated him. Captain Peter Burkill, 43, says he is a "broken man" and feels betrayed after being effectively grounded and having his pay docked. He says he has been refused the support he needs to start flying again. He also feels BA have not done enough to halt rumours that he "froze" when co-pilot John Coward landed the packed Boeing 777 on the runway on January. He told friends: "I've had enough. They told me I was a hero - but they've treated me like a fool. They said they would be there for me after the crash but I feel badly let down." On the fateful afternoon of January 17, Captain Burkill had already handed control of BA flight 038 to Second Officer John Coward when it lost power. But he aided the crash-landing and hours later the pair were paraded as heroes in front of the world's media by triumphant BA Chief Executive Willie Walsh, who said: "The captain is one of our most experienced. We are very proud of him." Second Officer John Coward and the plane's third pilot soon returned to normal, fully-paid flying duties. However, Captain Burkill took time off with post-traumatic stress - and within days learned that his salary had been halved from £120,000 to £60,000 through lost bonuses. Weeks of acrimony followed before his salary was increased to £90,000 through the reinstation of a flying bonus. But his away-from-home bonus, worth £30,000 a year, is still being withheld. And now he claims BA don't want him to fly again until the inquiry into the cause of the crash is completed. A ba source last night said: "Pete is disgusted at the way he has been treated. He was the hero of the hour and responsible for saving the plane. He even had a letter of personal thanks from the chief executive Willie Walsh. "It beggars belief. They still won't pay him what he was earning when he was flying but it's their fault he can't fly because their report is still not finished. He hasn't been officially grounded because he hasn't had his licence revoked. But he's effectively grounded because he can't fly. "They even told him off when they found out he'd sent a couple of the flight's passengers thank-you cards for gifts they'd sent him for saving their lives. Their handling of the whole thing has been woeful." Captain Burkill has flown only once since the crash - from Heathrow to Houston on February 19 - but was devastated when two members of the cabin crew told him his actions during the incident had been criticised by a trainer on a course they had recently attended. They said they had been told Captain Burkill had "frozen" the moment the Boeing lost power. But air investigators say he in fact made a crucial wing-flap adjustment in the flight's last 25 seconds which saved the lives of everyone on board. The Sunday Mirror has learned that tests show his action gave the powerless plane a vital 27ft of extra lift - and that the plane cleared the airport's perimeter fence by just 7ft. Captain Burkill has been "crushed" by the rumours that he froze, according to the the BA source. He said: "Pete called his manager and demanded that everyone be told exactly what happened in the cockpit that day. He was told it would all be in the internal report and that he should stay at home until it was published. He's asked every week when it will be completed and keeps being told that it's imminent. Meanwhile he's at home getting more and more depressed. Communication is virtually non-existent. He hasn't spoken to anyone at BA for a month and it seems they consider that to be an acceptable situation." The married dad-of-five is now considering emigrating to Dubai and has written to Richard Branson asking for a job at Virgin Atlantic. The revelation that he feels betrayed by BA bosses is another public relations blunder for the airline, still reeling from its disastrous move to Heathrow's £4billion Terminal 5. It is understood that BA's report into the crash will include high praise for Captain Burkill and that the Air Accident Investigation Board inquiry into the crash will exonerate him or any of the other pilots of any blame. The findings of the AAIB investigation in relation to why the plane's engines failed when the pilots demanded more power are not known. The Sunday Mirror has learned that BA's internal investigation has been dogged by management failings and lengthy delays in interviewing the relevant people . As well as explaining the actions of those involved in the emergency, it is also supposed to provide other BA pilots with vital information to avert a repeat incident. The BA source said: "It should have been finished weeks ago. It's a classic BA cock-up and their hero pilot is suffering. "You would have thought they would have moved heaven and earth to get it sorted and get their star guy back flying again. Instead, they make a hash of it all and could end up with the embarrassment of him leaving the airline because of it." A friend of Captain Burkill's wife Maria, 33, last night confirmed that he was considering resigning. "He's told me he would leave tomorrow if he had a job to go to," said the friend. "He's written a letter to Richard Branson explaining everything in the hope that he might be offered a job at Virgin. He and Maria have also been looking at houses in Dubai and think Pete might approach the Emirates airline for a job with them. If he leaves, he knows BA are going to look stupid, particularly so soon after Terminal 5. "Pete's always been a BA man through and through - even his dad was a BA pilot. He's always been one of their most loyal employees but now he thinks the senior managers are a joke." The friend also revealed how the stress is causing problems in his marriage and that he and Maria are having severe rows. Last night, at his home in Worcester, Captain Burkill refused to be interviewed by the Sunday Mirror. When we put our sources' claims to his wife Maria, she said: "Pete's been treated appallingly. "I'm biased, but I think he's a hero and I think every one of those 151 other people on board his plane that day would say the same." Meanwhile, co-pilot John Coward told how yesterday life is now "business as usual". He went back to work almost immediately following the crash. Last night BA said: "Captain Burkill is a highly valued member of staff and will continue to receive the full support of British Airways. He has not been grounded by the company or encouraged to stay at home. On the contrary the company has publically supported the crew of BA38. "Senior flight crew management and representatives from other areas of the airline have been in regular contact with Captain Burkill. This will continue to be the case." Cela dit, même le sensationnel Mirror ne dispose d'aucune piste sur les causes de l'accident... Je savais que ça vous plairait comme article

etops Membre Inscrit le 28/04/2008 525 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 10:38
	Curufinwe a écrit :si vous le voulez, je confirme à 100% que vous n'êtes pas lui et vice versa ... je peux dire que j'en suis plus que sûr ... Merci de votre rapide confirmation , je commençais à me sentir un peu seul et cerné ! Désolé, votre forum a des participants de qualité ( dont sevrien ) mais j' ai passé l' âge des attaques et des procès . Je lui conseillerai ( sevrien ) d' aller dormir un peu ou d' aller consulter ! .

sevrien Anonyme Inscrit le 08/08/2006 10 923 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 11:27
	poncho a écrit :Bonjour, Pour revenir à nous moutons et pour donner un autre angle, éminemment moins technique... http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sund ... -20396282/ Captain who saved 152 lives says British Airways have betrayed him By Simon Wright [email protected] 27/04/2008 Captain Peter Burkhill (SM) Related Articles More Sunday Have your say on What are you talking about? in our Forums News picturesRelated Tags ba, british airways, peter burkill (What's this?)The hero pilot who saved 152 lives in the Heathrow crash landing is planning to quit British Airways in disgust at the way bosses have treated him. Captain Peter Burkill, 43, says he is a "broken man" and feels betrayed after being effectively grounded and having his pay docked. He says he has been refused the support he needs to start flying again. He also feels BA have not done enough to halt rumours that he "froze" when co-pilot John Coward landed the packed Boeing 777 on the runway on January. He told friends: "I've had enough. They told me I was a hero - but they've treated me like a fool. They said they would be there for me after the crash but I feel badly let down." On the fateful afternoon of January 17, Captain Burkill had already handed control of BA flight 038 to Second Officer John Coward when it lost power. But he aided the crash-landing and hours later the pair were paraded as heroes in front of the world's media by triumphant BA Chief Executive Willie Walsh, who said: "The captain is one of our most experienced. We are very proud of him." Second Officer John Coward and the plane's third pilot soon returned to normal, fully-paid flying duties. However, Captain Burkill took time off with post-traumatic stress - and within days learned that his salary had been halved from £120,000 to £60,000 through lost bonuses. Weeks of acrimony followed before his salary was increased to £90,000 through the reinstation of a flying bonus. But his away-from-home bonus, worth £30,000 a year, is still being withheld. And now he claims BA don't want him to fly again until the inquiry into the cause of the crash is completed. A ba source last night said: "Pete is disgusted at the way he has been treated. He was the hero of the hour and responsible for saving the plane. He even had a letter of personal thanks from the chief executive Willie Walsh. "It beggars belief. They still won't pay him what he was earning when he was flying but it's their fault he can't fly because their report is still not finished. He hasn't been officially grounded because he hasn't had his licence revoked. But he's effectively grounded because he can't fly. "They even told him off when they found out he'd sent a couple of the flight's passengers thank-you cards for gifts they'd sent him for saving their lives. Their handling of the whole thing has been woeful." Captain Burkill has flown only once since the crash - from Heathrow to Houston on February 19 - but was devastated when two members of the cabin crew told him his actions during the incident had been criticised by a trainer on a course they had recently attended. They said they had been told Captain Burkill had "frozen" the moment the Boeing lost power. But air investigators say he in fact made a crucial wing-flap adjustment in the flight's last 25 seconds which saved the lives of everyone on board. The Sunday Mirror has learned that tests show his action gave the powerless plane a vital 27ft of extra lift - and that the plane cleared the airport's perimeter fence by just 7ft. Captain Burkill has been "crushed" by the rumours that he froze, according to the the BA source. He said: "Pete called his manager and demanded that everyone be told exactly what happened in the cockpit that day. He was told it would all be in the internal report and that he should stay at home until it was published. He's asked every week when it will be completed and keeps being told that it's imminent. Meanwhile he's at home getting more and more depressed. Communication is virtually non-existent. He hasn't spoken to anyone at BA for a month and it seems they consider that to be an acceptable situation." The married dad-of-five is now considering emigrating to Dubai and has written to Richard Branson asking for a job at Virgin Atlantic. The revelation that he feels betrayed by BA bosses is another public relations blunder for the airline, still reeling from its disastrous move to Heathrow's £4billion Terminal 5. It is understood that BA's report into the crash will include high praise for Captain Burkill and that the Air Accident Investigation Board inquiry into the crash will exonerate him or any of the other pilots of any blame. The findings of the AAIB investigation in relation to why the plane's engines failed when the pilots demanded more power are not known. The Sunday Mirror has learned that BA's internal investigation has been dogged by management failings and lengthy delays in interviewing the relevant people . As well as explaining the actions of those involved in the emergency, it is also supposed to provide other BA pilots with vital information to avert a repeat incident. The BA source said: "It should have been finished weeks ago. It's a classic BA cock-up and their hero pilot is suffering. "You would have thought they would have moved heaven and earth to get it sorted and get their star guy back flying again. Instead, they make a hash of it all and could end up with the embarrassment of him leaving the airline because of it." A friend of Captain Burkill's wife Maria, 33, last night confirmed that he was considering resigning. "He's told me he would leave tomorrow if he had a job to go to," said the friend. "He's written a letter to Richard Branson explaining everything in the hope that he might be offered a job at Virgin. He and Maria have also been looking at houses in Dubai and think Pete might approach the Emirates airline for a job with them. If he leaves, he knows BA are going to look stupid, particularly so soon after Terminal 5. "Pete's always been a BA man through and through - even his dad was a BA pilot. He's always been one of their most loyal employees but now he thinks the senior managers are a joke." The friend also revealed how the stress is causing problems in his marriage and that he and Maria are having severe rows. Last night, at his home in Worcester, Captain Burkill refused to be interviewed by the Sunday Mirror. When we put our sources' claims to his wife Maria, she said: "Pete's been treated appallingly. "I'm biased, but I think he's a hero and I think every one of those 151 other people on board his plane that day would say the same." Meanwhile, co-pilot John Coward told how yesterday life is now "business as usual". He went back to work almost immediately following the crash. Last night BA said: "Captain Burkill is a highly valued member of staff and will continue to receive the full support of British Airways. He has not been grounded by the company or encouraged to stay at home. On the contrary the company has publically supported the crew of BA38. "Senior flight crew management and representatives from other areas of the airline have been in regular contact with Captain Burkill. This will continue to be the case." Cela dit, même le sensationnel Mirror ne dispose d'aucune piste sur les causes de l'accident... Je savais que ça vous plairait comme article Merci, Poncho. Je l'ai lu, il y a déjà pas mal de temps, sans y attacher la moindre importance ! Pour des raisons juridiques, et de protection de "Captain BURKILL" et de la préservation de l'intégrité (au sens complet, et non pas au sens populaire sur le plan purement moral) de l'enquête de l'AAIB en cours, il est impératif de tenir Monsieur BURKILL à l'écart ! Le reste est de la soupe et de la fiction du Daily MIRROR ! Personne n'a suivi ce tabloîd sur ce terrain ! (Message édité par sevrien le 19/05/2008 11h29)

poncho Membre Inscrit le 10/04/2008 718 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 11:36
	Sevrien, ces raisons juridiques ne sont elles pas identiques pour le copilote alors ? Comment pourrait-on traduire ce que j'ai souligné en gras dans l'article ? Plus je pense à ces histoires de cavitation, plus je me dis que le problème de restriction du flux de carburant peut s'est développé pendant une bonne partie du vol... Enfin je n'ai pas vu l'état des pompes du 777... Merci

sevrien Anonyme Inscrit le 08/08/2006 10 923 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 12:37
	sevrien a écrit : pesawat a écrit :Des hypocrites c'est tout, ce qui s'est passé c'est une panne sèche, simplement , comme une compagnie américaine vous savez... juste ce qu'il faut pour faire le vol sans penser aux éventuels changements de direction de vents, portants c'est sur que cela consomme moins mais si cela change ou un autre paramètre qui change et hop panne en phase descente a quelques kms de l'atterissage.Les pilotes vont parler peut etre! En fait, j'ai lu trop vite ! Désolé, pesawat ! Mes excuses ! Je formulerai différemment plus tard ! (Message édité par sevrien le 19/05/2008 12h36) Oui, ... plus tard ! Mais je n'aurais pas dû dire "foutaises" ! Mes excuses !

sevrien Anonyme Inscrit le 08/08/2006 10 923 messages postés	# 19 mai 2008 12:50
	poncho a écrit :Sevrien, ces raisons juridiques ne sont elles pas identiques pour le copilote alors ? Comment pourrait-on traduire ce que j'ai souligné en gras dans l'article ? Plus je pense à ces histoires de cavitation, plus je me dis que le problème de restriction du flux de carburant peut s'est développé pendant une bonne partie du vol... Enfin je n'ai pas vu l'état des pompes du 777... Merci Sauf erreur de ma part, le co-pilote, travaillant sous "briefed procedure", comme cela est indiqué & confirmé dans les rapports préliminaires & "interim", avec tous éléments de 'télémétrie" /Voice Recorder à l'appui, doit pouvoir s'exprimer sous l'Autorité de la loi "Freedom of Circulation of Information Act" (RU = premier pays de l'UE à avoir traduit dans les faits et dans l'action cette directive européenne). Normalement, par politesse, il aurait informé les Autorités de 'AAIB', qui n'auraient absolument pas dicté ses propos, ou donné la permission. Les responsables auraient (normalement ! ) pris note de son intention de parler, en réponse aux sollicitations des media, mais lui auaient rappelé (j'imagine) qu'il était / est toujours sous la force de instruction de l'enqûete, et ne peut pas impunément dévier par rapport à ce qu'il a dit dans le cadre de l'enquête (pas de scoop, donc, ... ou 'autre témoignage), et qui soit incohérent par rapport à ce qui est officiellment publié ! Il ne peut pas donner impunément une information qui puisse être considérée comme significative pour l'enquête, en "primeur" aux media ! Au RU, ....ce genre de règle, dans ce genre de cadre, est strictement observé (normalement) ! *Mais le co-pilote peut relater sa vision des faits, "avec ses yeux", son humanité à lui !* J'espère que je ne me trompe pas dans dans cette réponse ! Je pense avoir donné les bons éléments ! (Message édité par sevrien le 19/05/2008 13h26)

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